Emily (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
iluvroadrunner6) wrote2007-03-03 11:12 am
iluvroadrunner6) wrote2007-03-03 11:12 am
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I know this is a bit of a weird move, posting this here instead of at Talk, but I really don't go in there anymore, to check her response to this, and if she does respond, I want to know. Therefore, if any of her friends want to direct her here and let her know that someone is politely challenging her writing, feel free to do so.
I understand that it's her review, and her opinion, but I've had it up to here with Kristine Huntley's absolutely scalding reviews of Anna Belknap's performances. Yes, to her credit, she does analyze the other aspects of an episode well, and the reviews are usually insightful on that point. However, when it comes to Lindsay, I always feel that her impressions are far stronger than they should be.
I, personally don't agree with the Danny/Lindsay storyline. I don't think it's right for the characters at the moment, and it's unbalanced for it's position in the show. I've already stated my opinions on that before. But I feel that Anna shouldn't be blamed for what the writers have given her. She plays the character well, and while the performance itself may be uneven, it may just be reflecting the script. Actors aren't necessarily given their character on a silver platter, and told that this is what they have to play. They have to formulate something out of what is written, and when the storyline is as rocky as the CSI:NY storylines can be, Anna does well for what she is given. I think a less skilled and less talented actress would have faired much worse than Anna has.
Also, I think the initial courtroom scene did not fall flat at all. I didn't get the impression that Anna/Lindsay was trying to do anything but hold herself together. Maybe it's the dramatic age we've been thrust into, but generally speaking I don't think victims, especially seasoned criminalists, who noted having appeared in that courtroom many times before, would willingly let themselves fall apart on the stand like that. Let themselves get emotional, yes. But not put on a crying show to earn the jury's sympathy. Lindsay's more professional than that. When she felt herself start to reach that breaking point, she asked to take a break, to pull herself together. I think that scene was perfectly in character for Lindsay, nothing more was really needed. The second scene left something to be desired on the part of the character, because I think she's stronger than needing Danny's support to finish the testimony, but that's not Anna's fault, it's the writers for pushing the storyline.
I feel that Anna Belknap has been a breath of fresh air in contrast to Vanessa Ferlito's stereotypical, Brooklyn-esque character. While I know that Aiden is a character everyone enjoyed, I didn't feel that Vanessa did much acting at all for the role, and Aiden was such a cookie cutter New York character, that she didn't really leave an impression on me. Lindsay on the other hand has been an interesting juxtaposition for Mac, Stella, Hawkes, occasionally Flack, and yes, even Danny. I feel her character has brought an different component to the team, which is a group of seasoned, if not native New Yorkers, and her as the new girl, bringing that kind of element to the team has been nice to watch.
Lindsay has more facets than I feel Kristine gives her credit for. While I also understand that a review is the writer's opinions, I also feel that she needs to keep in mind that she is writing for an audience, and generalizing her opinions as everyone's is not exactly fostering fandom peace. (I remember her mentioning things about how Lindsay was a hard character to love, etc, and had I been from outside the fan pool of the show, the impression I could have gotten was that everyone felt that way, but that really is not the case.) I have read reviews that while the reviewer stated her dislike for the character, she was able to keep it out of the blatant bashing range that I have seen in Kristine's reviews, and only request that she try and do the same.
As I said, feel free to direct her in this direction. Comments are turned on, I'm not hiding from her. I just wanted to make sure I didn't forget to check and see her response, as I know I would have if I posted this on talk.
I understand that it's her review, and her opinion, but I've had it up to here with Kristine Huntley's absolutely scalding reviews of Anna Belknap's performances. Yes, to her credit, she does analyze the other aspects of an episode well, and the reviews are usually insightful on that point. However, when it comes to Lindsay, I always feel that her impressions are far stronger than they should be.
I, personally don't agree with the Danny/Lindsay storyline. I don't think it's right for the characters at the moment, and it's unbalanced for it's position in the show. I've already stated my opinions on that before. But I feel that Anna shouldn't be blamed for what the writers have given her. She plays the character well, and while the performance itself may be uneven, it may just be reflecting the script. Actors aren't necessarily given their character on a silver platter, and told that this is what they have to play. They have to formulate something out of what is written, and when the storyline is as rocky as the CSI:NY storylines can be, Anna does well for what she is given. I think a less skilled and less talented actress would have faired much worse than Anna has.
Also, I think the initial courtroom scene did not fall flat at all. I didn't get the impression that Anna/Lindsay was trying to do anything but hold herself together. Maybe it's the dramatic age we've been thrust into, but generally speaking I don't think victims, especially seasoned criminalists, who noted having appeared in that courtroom many times before, would willingly let themselves fall apart on the stand like that. Let themselves get emotional, yes. But not put on a crying show to earn the jury's sympathy. Lindsay's more professional than that. When she felt herself start to reach that breaking point, she asked to take a break, to pull herself together. I think that scene was perfectly in character for Lindsay, nothing more was really needed. The second scene left something to be desired on the part of the character, because I think she's stronger than needing Danny's support to finish the testimony, but that's not Anna's fault, it's the writers for pushing the storyline.
I feel that Anna Belknap has been a breath of fresh air in contrast to Vanessa Ferlito's stereotypical, Brooklyn-esque character. While I know that Aiden is a character everyone enjoyed, I didn't feel that Vanessa did much acting at all for the role, and Aiden was such a cookie cutter New York character, that she didn't really leave an impression on me. Lindsay on the other hand has been an interesting juxtaposition for Mac, Stella, Hawkes, occasionally Flack, and yes, even Danny. I feel her character has brought an different component to the team, which is a group of seasoned, if not native New Yorkers, and her as the new girl, bringing that kind of element to the team has been nice to watch.
Lindsay has more facets than I feel Kristine gives her credit for. While I also understand that a review is the writer's opinions, I also feel that she needs to keep in mind that she is writing for an audience, and generalizing her opinions as everyone's is not exactly fostering fandom peace. (I remember her mentioning things about how Lindsay was a hard character to love, etc, and had I been from outside the fan pool of the show, the impression I could have gotten was that everyone felt that way, but that really is not the case.) I have read reviews that while the reviewer stated her dislike for the character, she was able to keep it out of the blatant bashing range that I have seen in Kristine's reviews, and only request that she try and do the same.
As I said, feel free to direct her in this direction. Comments are turned on, I'm not hiding from her. I just wanted to make sure I didn't forget to check and see her response, as I know I would have if I posted this on talk.
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But as for the actress, I have nothing against Anna Belknap and I think she's trying to cope as much as she can especially when she's filling in a char as big a hit as Aiden was.
I think I blame my lack of love for Lindsay would be how the writers are constantly pushing for D/L. I don't know, but personally, I don't see the chemistry there and it seems almost forced. But then again, that's just me. The writers should've allowed Lindsay to grow as her own before letting in any romance.
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i never really understood why aiden was such a hit with the fans. maybe it's because of where i'm from (i live in new jersey, about an hour away by train from the city), or the fact that she was just what i expected in every way, but i never got why she had such a large fanbase. *shrugs* i always saw her as a bit of a mini-stella (but stella had a better fashion sense). i like that stella and lindsay are very different. it proves for more interesting interactions.
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On another note which I forgot to voice out, I like Kristine's reviews, but I never truly enjoy a review when it goes into bashing an actress. There's a fine line between critiquing and bashing, and personal feelings can cloud that.
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and i agree. it's a very fine line, and you've got to be careful where you tread.
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i used to be on talk all the time, but then it just got too big and too--superficial?--for my taste. i stick to smaller boards, usually.
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(Anonymous) 2007-03-04 12:33 am (UTC)(link)no subject
(Anonymous) 2007-03-04 06:45 pm (UTC)(link)To clear something up--since it's apparently causing a bit of a stir--I am not simply trying to "bash" the character of Lindsay or Anna Belknap. I'm pointing out what I see as an honest to goodness weakness in the show, something I feel is a real detriment to the show. I have nothing against Ms. Belknap personally, but I strongly feel her acting isn't up to snuff with the rest of the actors on the show, and I feel that hurts the show as a whole. I feel the same way about the romance storyline, which could be handled much better.
I invite and encourage discussion and disagreement with my opinion. I admit, I prefer topical debate as opposed to simple complaining like FrellingBlonde offered, but I encourage you guys to speak up. By no means is mine the only opinion, and for those wondering, no, I'm not so arrogant to think the writers, the actors, CBS, etc. read my reviews and think, "Kristine doesn't like X storyline! It must be changed!" :lol: Seriously, reviews are just an opinion--often a strongly felt one--about a show. Thanks for reading and replying--it is appreciated. :)
That's from Talk--not sure what I can add save for the fact that I do believe another actress could do much, much more with the part than what Belknap does. Another actress could have convinced me that the pain of a snakebite was intense and not simply a minor irritation, another actress could have cried convincingly when imagining the bodies of her friends in the morgue, another actress could have put some emotion into telling her superiors she was going to testify in the murder trial of the man whose crime still haunts her. If you want to blame the writing alone, that is fine, and if you think Anna is a fantastic actress, great. You have as much right to your opinion as I do to mine. But to call it "bashing" is shortsighted--I've said nothing insulting about her personally; I've simply criticized her professional work, which as a reviewer, is what I'm supposed to evaluate.
Kristine
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You obviously are not a D/L shipper. And whenever there's a scene with Danny and Lindsay, you don't say anything about the storyline itself. You say that you don't find the relationship believable because of Anna. That's not a nitpick you have about the show; that's a bias.
There ARE fans of Anna Belknap out there. There's a whole message board of not only D/L fans, but Anna Belknap fans. The fact is, when you, someone in a position of power at Talk, attack Anna (and that IS what you do), it alienates the Anna fans that read your reviews, and the members of the forum. I'm not saying that you have to like Anna, because you don't. You are entitled to your opinion. But when you voice your opinion, so frequently and strongly, it makes Anna fans uncomfortable. I know people who don't go to Talk CSI anymore - at all - because of the anti-Anna vibe. And, the fact is, you seem to be orchestrating most of it. You may not like Anna Belknap, but there are hundreds of people who do. You're entitled to your opinion, as I've said, so I'll share our opinion: Anna Belknap has made the show better. She's brought fresh air to the show, a new perspective, and a new arc for a character that - even at Talk - is loved by everyone.
You don't like Anna Belknap. Fine. But other viewers do. The writers and producers do. The cast does. So, honestly, I don't know what you hope to achieve by bashing her. And, as you said, just because you bash her doesn't mean TPTB are going to change the storyline so that you're happy. So bashing Anna, saying you don't like the D/L storyline or her acting...What's going to come of it? The fact is, Anna isn't going anywhere, and neither is the Danny/Lindsay storyline. You can bash it all you want, you don't have to agree with it...but it's happening. And if you're a fan of the show, you'll have to accept it.
You call yourself an evaluater, but that's not accurate. Evaluaters are objective. They don't let their personal opinions cloud their reviews. But that's exactly what you do.
Iluvroadrunner, I'm sorry for the length of this. I know, this isn't exactly the place for me to get into this, but I just thought that all of that should be said.
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(Anonymous) 2007-03-05 01:25 am (UTC)(link)I do. It seems to be those with an agenda that pick out one part and blow it up to be more than it is. Only one analytical paragraph out of the thirteen I wrote was direct criticism of Anna and Lindsay. (A few more were devoted to D/L.) But only one was devoted to criticism of Anna.
QUOTE: I'm sorry, but do you even read what you write?
It's clear you don't. I'm done here.
Kristine
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As an evaluator, your job is to objectively review the show. And for the most part, you do. But when it comes to Lindsay, you're not at all objective. You review Lindsay, and Lindsay's scenes, and what was wrong with them.
As a matter of fact, you even bash Lindsay in the episodes she doesn't appear in! In your review of Heart Of Glass, you said this:
It was great to see the old Danny back, and I hope he won't scamper away again once lifeless Lindsay returns to New York.
I do read what you write. I've read all of your reviews for season three episodes, except for one. You should be objective. You shouldn't bash Lindsay, and bring it into your episode reviews just because you don't like the actress. As I said before, that's not a complaint; it's a bias that influences your episode reviews. Obviously, I can't tell you what to write, but you can't say that you don't bash Lindsay/Anna when it's evident in the majority of your reviews.
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And it may not be bashing on a written level, but when it comes into every single review, and every review is negative, negative, negative--it feels that way to someone who is a fan. And as I said, I understand. your opinions, your review. And they are just reviews. But it doesn't help the fact that you are the only reviewer, and that other reviewers who have a dislike for Lindsay, can still critique her for the same issues (consistency, being tied to strongly to Danny), and bring up the same points, but not be nearly as negative as you can be.
I understand what you're saying--and I don't think that you're arrogant or anything like that, but I do think that maybe you don't see how strongly you come on when it comes to Lindsay.
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I also used to “live” at Talk, but stopped going there somewhere in S2 - not because I was an Anna Belknap fan at, I was rather ambivalent, but thought I’d give the character a chance, but because the comments about Lindsay just didn’t sit well with me, even though I hadn’t seen S2 at that stage.
I want to strongly echo this sentiment:
But not put on a crying show to earn the jury's sympathy. Lindsay's more professional than that. When she felt herself start to reach that breaking point, she asked to take a break, to pull herself together. I think that scene was perfectly in character for Lindsay, nothing more was really needed.
I agree. I cannot evaluate acting; I’m not an actor. Yet, the statement about Anna not even being able to produce tears really bothered me, because I just don’t see the character falling apart like that. I actually saw the tears in 314 as somewhat OOC, but assumed the writers were going with portraying delayed onset PTS.
This is already a long response, but I can tell you that I have seen many professional adults – some whom I thought could never fall in love - doing the romance thing much the same way it is done here. So, while I think people are entitled to their opinions (I happen to like the D/L development), I have problems with it being called “juvenile”. I have to wonder what an “adult” romance look like then – in the beginning phases? Is there only one formula? Just last week, I saw a young kick-ass professor (PhD from Cornell) writing his fiancée’s name in fancy letters in the margin of his note pad during a meeting. Does that make him juvenile?
I haven’t seen Danny and Lindsay carving little hearts with their names in the lab equipment – maybe it was in one of the episodes I missed?
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It bothered me too. And maybe if the event was more recent, she might have been more likely for the tears to come, but she's been dealing with this event for years.
And I'm not saying that I don't like Danny/Lindsay, or the fact that they're getting together. I just think that Lindsay's stronger than needing to see Danny in that courtroom in order to finish her testimony. I feel like the writers are tying her to his character a bit too much and not giving her enough development on her own to make her believable to the audience as a regular. That's my main concern, really.
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(Anonymous) 2007-03-05 08:18 pm (UTC)(link)I'll also state for the record that I do find Anna wanting as an actress and I find the Danny and Lindsay scenes poorly written and executed. I don't find her to be a breath of fresh air as much as I find her to be a sore thumb. I'd also question your notion of Aiden as a stereotypical New Yorker from Brooklyn, because living so close to the actual city you should know that there is no such thing anymore than the stereotype of New Jersey stinking is true.
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I do realize I am biased. And I didn't set this up so people could take shots at Talk for Kristine's reviews. I was just stating my opinions, and making a request. I did not attack her skills as a writer, or her ability to review, in fact I commented in the beginning about how much insight her reviews can have. I don't expect her to follow through with the request. I was just making a point.
I'd also question your notion of Aiden as a stereotypical New Yorker from Brooklyn, because living so close to the actual city you should know that there is no such thing any more than the stereotype of New Jersey stinking is true.
Maybe not in real life, but in the terms of the media and written work, yes that character does exist, and to me it felt like Aiden was ripped right from the mold. She wasn't unique. I could go into any New York drama ever written, and find a character just like her. Maybe if Vanessa had decided to stay with the show, they might have been able to develop her more and she would have been less--flat as a character, but she did, and that's the impression I'm left with.
I feel like they're trying to develop Lindsay too fast to make up for it, but that's another point entirely.
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While we're on the topic of Talk -- that board has been growing exponentially and a lot of people who used to post there when I first started lurking a scant year ago. I wish more people would post articulate, well-thought out comments on the episodes that I see elsewhere, but too often, they are deterred by what can seem like the sheer number of apparent Lindsay-Anna detractors. There really aren't that many; just that the posts against outweigh the posts in favor, but they do seem to be confined to a few threads. Heck, there were even a couple of threads devoted to getting rid of Danny. Anyways, enough on this topic. I do wish you'd come back and post on Talk even occasionally.
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And I agree that Lindsay might not have been the right fit for Anna. But I also think that the directors and producers could have fared worse. They do have to work with what they have when they're casting, and if Anna was the best combination for the part (talent, look, etc.) that came forward, there's not much they can do.
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(Anonymous) 2007-03-06 02:21 am (UTC)(link)I always feel that her impressions are far stronger than they should be.
While I also understand that a review is the writer's opinions, I also feel that she needs to keep in mind that she is writing for an audience, and generalizing her opinions as everyone's is not exactly fostering fandom peace.
keep it out of the blatant bashing range that I have seen in Kristine's reviews
You've judged the strength of her sentiment thereby calling into question the depth of her emotion, when you yourself were so moved by her "constant attacks on Lindsay" that you not only posted this you also advised anyone from Talk that saw this to let her know, which seems more like a calling out for a rumble rather than opening the lines of communication. However, that view is of course my opinion and I honestly, can't tell if I stated it too strongly or generally for anyone else's tastes.
Then you attempt to tell her how to actually structure her reviews, even with your caveat of not expecting her to take up your suggestion, you ask her to keep from generalizing, when you yourself have generalized her reviews with words like ”blatant bashing” and “far stronger than they should be”, a stance that I find a bit hypocritical. Honestly, if people are not intelligent enough to formulate their own opinions and understand that a review is nothing more than a personal observation then perhaps the problem is not with the reviewer but the weak character of the reader.
Finally, you say that you did not attack Kristine when here you accuse her of bashing, I’m not certain why you don’t believe that is personal when it is just the sort of thing that is frowned upon by boards all over the Internet. Bashing implies without reason or merit and I believe she has repeatedly provided episode accurate reasons for her opinions. There is no bashing in that, in fact, it is structure you make a statement, usually a general statement, and then you support it with facts as you see and interpret them and what you get in the end is a well informed opinion, again the heart of the matter.
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I included that afternote, because I didn't want it to seem as though I wasn't posting this at Talk because I didn't want her to respond. I've had some issues with friends where they were being attacked in a public forum, and then the poster turned comments off so they couldn't defend themselves/their opinions. I just don't go into Talk as frequently as I used to, and I might forget to check the response.
Then you attempt to tell her how to actually structure her reviews, even with your caveat of not expecting her to take up your suggestion, you ask her to keep from generalizing, when you yourself have generalized her reviews with words like ”blatant bashing” and “far stronger than they should be”
As for my choice of phrasing, maybe I have come on a bit strong in this, but I have never said that these opinions were anyone's but my own. I proceeded most of the statements I made with that idea, or at least checked to make sure I did. After all, this is my journal, and my opinions. I have every right to do so.
I said nothing about telling her how to structure her reviews, and I'm sorry if you felt I implied that. I'm not even sure what you mean by that. I'm not telling her how to feel about Lindsay, and I respect her opinion. I'm just stating mine.
I also respect your wish to remain anonymous, but if you don't mind, I'd like to know which Talk member I'm speaking to.
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(Anonymous) 2007-03-06 03:42 am (UTC)(link)I believe your sentiment here applies to Kristine as well, does it not? I'm not sure why the phrasing of your opinion can "come on a bit strong" while Kristine's need to be tempered to the masses and turned towards the gentle. It is your journal and it is Kristine's review her name is attached and people are free to agree or disagree with her opinions, so like the rights you reserve for yourself I believe that Kristine is entitled to the same.
I said nothing about telling her how to structure her reviews, and I'm sorry if you felt I implied that. I'm not even sure what you mean by that. I'm not telling her how to feel about Lindsay, and I respect her opinion. I'm just stating mine.
You are telling her what is wrong with the way she expresses her opinion of Lindsay and suggesting that she may want to approach her feelings for Lindsay in a different manner and that goes towards structure and style in the field of writing.
Perhaps, I misunderstood the following: I have read reviews that while the reviewer stated her dislike for the character, she was able to keep it out of the blatant bashing range that I have seen in Kristine's reviews, and only request that she try and do the same.
I must say, that seems to me a suggestion on how Kristine should conduct her reviews in the future, it could be your phrasing or it could be my opinion of your phrasing. Again, opinion rears its beautiful head, where would we be without it, in a boring world marching to the beat of the same drummer and talking in the same cadence without any variation in tone or temperament.
I'm not disagreeing with your right to express your opinion, I am simply taking issue with your allowing certain behaviors in yourself that you do not allow in others and I'm not sure why you feel that your entitlement is greater than Kristine's when it comes to vehemence and allowed manner of expression.
As far as which poster I am on Talk, I can't see how that holds any weight in this discussion, so suffice it to say that while I am a reader I am not anyone you would recognize. I would also say that if you in fact respected my anonymity them you would not have gone on to ask for my identity, because everyone here is nameless and faceless to me and I opt to remain so to them.
Good luck to you in the future.
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True. That is why I will always try to state it as "my opinion", what "I saw", not fact. And, I think, that is what I am missing in the TalkCSI reviews. Kristine is regarded as an authority, which means she has to be so much more careful in her choice of words and how it will be recieved.
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(Anonymous) 2007-03-06 11:23 pm (UTC)(link)"Kristine is regarded as an authority, which means she has to be so much more careful in her choice of words and how it will be recieved."
I have to second Elainhe on this.
Kristine is in a leadership role at Talk. She is the site Administrator, she conducts the interviews with the cast and she provides the reviews for the shows as well. She does the latter two under her name “Kristine,” but as the site Administrator, she is known as Top41. It is her contributions to discussions as “Top41” where she quite openly voices her disdain (a strong word yes, but that is my perception) for Anna/Lindsay. I think anyone who frequents that site can and has put two and two together in that Top41 and Kristine are one and the same.
In my opinion, therein lies the problem. When reading Kristine’s reviews, Top41’s comments in the threads are carried over in the minds of the readers.
My view may be a bit colored as I am looking at this from a business perspective and not from an informal online chat room view, BUT a leadership role is a leadership role – the definition doesn’t change based on setting. In my opinion, it is bad management to have the same person act as
1. an administrator who likes to voice her dislike repeatedly
2. reviewer
3. interviewer
The saying, “you can’t have your cake and eat it too,” rings very true. If you are going to be an administrator, then administrate/manage and leave comments to a minimum and in the middle. This holds true especially if you hold the position of reviewer as well – your views come out there, as they should, but when they are repeatedly bandied about the board, it gets a but old. And as for the interviews, well when the administrator and reviewer all openly dislike Anna/Lindsay, the odds are slim to none that there won’t be any interviews of that actress, and if there are, one can see the dislike dripping from the questions, much as they can be seen when reading other cast member interviews when the subject of Anna/Lindsay comes up.
When all is said and done, Kristine/Top41 is someone in a position of authority at Talk CSI, and as such is the voice of the site and that voice keeps telling people that Talk CSI doesn’t like Anna/Lindsay - that is bad management AND bad representation. This is very apparent when the moderator’s put in place also dislike Anna/Lindsay – where is the diversity and balance? There is none.
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(Anonymous) 2007-03-08 05:48 pm (UTC)(link)